koganbot: Bosh Jams On A Fast Break

koganbot (

koganbot) wrote,
@ 2008-05-16 09:04:00

Current music:	Scooter "The Question Is What Is The Question"
Entry tags:	taxonomic agony

Bosh Jams On A Fast Break
The question is what is the genre.

skyecaptain says that, while no one in Internet history has thought up an adequate generic category for whatever the hell it is that Scooter does so very well, the answer is clearly "bosh jams."

I think Scooter'd officially be called Happy Hardcore, though I'd not be the one to hold an informed opinion on the subject.

Google reveals "Toronto's Chris Bosh jams on a fast break." But it seems to me that if it's a true jam it should be a slow break, so that there can be slow bosh jams. But that doesn't seem to be the Scooter style. I suppose a slow jam can have a fast break, if they're willing to change tempo.

(Post a new comment)

	carsmilesteve 2008-05-16 03:09 pm UTC (link)
	nah mate, snot fast enough for happy hardcore innit. STADIUM BOSH is the closest i've come to a title, in the same way that KLF were stadium house... (Reply to this)(Thread)

	koganbot 2008-05-16 03:15 pm UTC (link)
	"Stadium bosh" seems viable. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	koganbot 2008-05-16 03:18 pm UTC (link)
	By the way, is "bosh" in the sense we've been using it (whatever that is) a standard term out in the big wide world of dance and pop music, or is it a special term that poptimists use? Or a word abroad in the culture but used somewhat differently here? Or something in between (that is, used elsewhere as we use it here, but not by so many)? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	carsmilesteve 2008-05-16 03:27 pm UTC (link)
	errrrrrrrrm, dunno... katstevens is probably the best person to ask :) bosh is at use in the wider word, it's an cockney word, i'm trying to think of the best way to define it, it's a bit like WALLOP or THWACK (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	katstevens 2008-05-16 03:35 pm UTC (link)
	What hmm what? Sorry, I was watching Erasure vids on Youtube. There's no way that's him doing the backflip. ANYWAY er yes I think 'bosh' is used by non-poptimists in the onomatopaeic sense, but not as a serious adjective. Its use in common poptimists parlance may well be entirely my fault. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	koganbot 2008-05-16 06:03 pm UTC (link)
	So you are to bosh as Nick Tosches and Dave Marsh are to punk. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	koganbot 2008-05-16 06:05 pm UTC (link)
	And not only is it a serious adjective on poptimists, it's a serious NOUN! (Well, serious to the limited extent that something called "bosh" can be serious.) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	jauntyalan 2008-05-16 03:27 pm UTC (link)
	my guess is it's not 'standard' as such - it's not in the 'bosh' disambiguation page on wikipedia. 'boshing' is stablish slang outside of poptimists, but is quite generic 'marvellous there'. (Reply to this)(Parent)

cis
2008-05-16 03:43 pm UTC (link)

I've always assumed that the pmists use of 'bosh' comes from that bit in The Timelords' Doctorin' The Tardis where the dalek-voice goes 'bosh bosh bosh!' -- ie that it's quite specific to this group of people. But "bosh bosh bosh bosh" is also quite common onomatopoeia for four-to-the-floor bangin' techno.

'bish bash bosh' is quite a common cockney phrase, it sort of indicates that something will be fairly swift to knock together? And then of course to Edward Lear or someone 'bosh' meant 'nonsense'.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	carsmilesteve 2008-05-16 03:45 pm UTC (link)
	but that's nicked from the LOADSAMONEY song innit! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	cis 2008-05-16 03:53 pm UTC (link)
	ugh henfield. i will admit only to the existence of klf-spinoff novelty tunes, not the tunes they steal from! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	carsmilesteve 2008-05-16 03:58 pm UTC (link)
	for frank's "benefit": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2FhFi0FZ9Y&feature=related no sign of the actual video on youtube strangely... (Reply to this)(Parent)

	carsmilesteve 2008-05-16 03:46 pm UTC (link)
	and by that i mean the bit in doctoring the tardis, obv ;) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	boyofbadgers 2008-05-16 03:22 pm UTC (link)
	I think the definition of HH might have drifted a bit lately, at least if all the assertions that Basshunter are HH are anything to go by. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	carsmilesteve 2008-05-16 03:28 pm UTC (link)
	HEIN???? surely HH has to be at least 160, if not 180 though and completely 4-4... (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	katstevens 2008-05-16 03:33 pm UTC (link)
	Happy Hardcore = anything on this. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	O/T jeff_worrell 2008-05-16 03:34 pm UTC (link)
	Frank, did you receive a Spoonie Gee mp3 notification from yousendit? It's just occurred to me you might have thought it was YSI spam and deleted the message. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	Re: O/T koganbot 2008-05-16 05:45 pm UTC (link)
	Yes, got it yesterday. Many thanks. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	stevem78 2008-05-16 03:36 pm UTC (link)
	I like Bosh as a genre name - short, succinct and suitably descriptive in Scooter's case. But using it as a catch-all for anything with a 4/4 kickdrum over 130bpm is predictably problematic. (Reply to this)

	freakytigger 2008-05-16 03:52 pm UTC (link)
	I started using it in the sense of "bosh cover version" to describe the big eurotrance cover versions of, well, everything that you find on the Replay Dance Mania and Remixland series. But this isn't a useful definition of Bosh as in terms of sound and intensity it covers everything from quite poppy house through trance to gabber. (Reply to this)(Thread)

koganbot
2008-05-16 05:53 pm UTC (link)

But I have an intuitive sense of how to use the word even if there's no settled definition. Eurotacky covers are brash even if not fast, and most dance that revs up fast is a bit funny in being fast, like chipmunks or silent movie comedies played on the wrong projector. And Scooter is faster than standard (and were faster in their earlier days, right) and do the cover tackiness and the silly sounds, and bassline gets to be honorary bosh in that the wibbly bass can add bosh that interrupts the melody, or the pop melodiousness adds bosh to what otherwise might be troppo serious sound weirdness.

Whereas the slow movement to Beethoven's Seventh is not bosh - unless someone does a bosh version.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	koganbot 2008-05-16 05:55 pm UTC (link)
	Though I suppose if someone did a nonstop bosh set that was so relentlessly bosh that the boshness was losing all impact, then the DJ's finally inserting straightup the Cleveland Symphony Orchestra's version of the Seventh Symphony could be the MOST bosh moment of the night! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	katstevens 2008-05-16 07:21 pm UTC (link)
	This sort of thing happens more often than you might think. But instead of Cleveland Symphony Orchestra, the dj might interrupt the boshing flow by dropping 'Why' by Carly Simon or something similarly slow and cheesy. This is much more likely to occur at Bangface though, where seriousness is Frowned Upon. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	koganbot 2008-05-16 06:29 pm UTC (link)
	Also, "trance" seems to have poppier connotations among you guys than it does in the States. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	katstevens 2008-05-16 07:25 pm UTC (link)
	Trance often does very well in the UK charts! Well, compared to techno or drum'n'bass anyway. I'd say Basshunter were trance (schaffle-trance?), but that's mainly because I find it i) boring ii) difficult to dance to iii) appears to be liked by the sort of dudes I didn't get on with at school, rather than because of the type of noise they are making. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	koganbot 2008-05-16 07:33 pm UTC (link)
	OK, to me Basshunter are Europop, basically, with a dance underbelly. Whereas "trance" is longer and willing to space out and not have middle eights but just kind of drift along having peaks and valleys. I once said to a friend, "trance is failed disco." She immediately disagreed: "It's evolved disco." (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Okay, what about Nindie koganbot 2008-05-16 05:57 pm UTC (link)
	Is "Nindie" used anywhere but poptimists? I used "Nindie" in a review for Paper Thin Walls, and they asked me about it and I explained it was "standard British slang for 'indie'," and they bought this and felt really out of it for not knowing. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	Re: Okay, what about Nindie byebyepride 2008-05-16 06:11 pm UTC (link)
	I think that might be a poptimist thing. you occasionally see indie-schmindie which is more obviously dismissive, sometimes shortened to 'schmindie', but this is one of those things that everyone on the student paper I worked on used, and I don't know if we got it from the outside world, or have subsequently disseminated it there. I should google it, I suppose! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Okay, what about Nindie koganbot 2008-05-16 06:21 pm UTC (link)
	Well, I hadn't thought of "Nindie" as any more dismissive than "indie," which is plenty dismissive itself in this neck of the forest. Just thought it was "an indie" with the N carried forward. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Okay, what about Nindie byebyepride 2008-05-16 06:28 pm UTC (link)
	ha ha well indie-schmindie can be dismissive or an affectionate acknowledgment of a guilty pleasure... I guess I read 'nindie' that way because of the way I use 'indie' most of the time! I think its use may come from nuncle carsmile - can't remember why carsmile gets called uncle, and nuncle is I think Shakespearean? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Okay, what about Nindie byebyepride 2008-05-16 06:29 pm UTC (link)
	I also like the way 'nindie' is quite close to 'ninnie' / ninny. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	dubdobdee 2008-05-16 07:36 pm UTC (link)
	uncle --> nuncle indie --> nindie it is a medieval elaboration of slightly teasing affection (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Okay, what about Nindie katstevens 2008-05-16 06:56 pm UTC (link)
	I think catsgomiaow was responsible for Carsmile's honorifics. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Okay, what about Nindie carsmilesteve 2008-05-17 10:30 am UTC (link)
	marnameow was involved also, but yes, it's a reversal of the moveable n, first usage may have involved an imaginary conversation along the lines of: they are an indie band, m'lud what is this nindie? (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Okay, what about Nindie

jeff_worrell
2008-05-16 06:45 pm UTC (link)

I suspect this is one for

atommickbrane really, but I think it means indie, but the indie we secretly love (whilst at the same time rubbishing all other rubbish indie) - and also a state of loving the indie we secretly love i.e. it's (self) descriptive of a person as much as a record. Any implied perjorative is therefore usually affectionate or in jest.

Also, I've seen it more usually applied to indie pop (esp. twee) than indie rock.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Okay, what about Nindie jeff_worrell 2008-05-16 06:46 pm UTC (link)
	Or what Dr T just said. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Okay, what about Nindie carsmilesteve 2008-05-17 10:36 am UTC (link)
	hahaha, this is totally sweet though cos it's rly just us that use it, to the best of my knowledge... on-line use seems to be mainly about independant nintendo games, although there is a "NZ nindie tag" on last.fm at the botton of the first page of hits, although i suspect hoshuteki or miss_newham might be responsible for this Edited at 2008-05-17 10:37 am UTC (Reply to this)(Parent)

	skyecaptain 2008-05-16 06:01 pm UTC (link)
	Not sure if my pun on Jock Jams was clear, but Jock Bosh is also a possible permutation of the phrase. I figure most of the Scooter stuff qualifies as Eurotacky covers, but as carsmilesteve says, there's a certain stadium/anthem element to it that isn't a prerequisite of what usually gets called bosh at poptimists. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	koganbot 2008-05-16 06:07 pm UTC (link)
	But there's definitely something "throw-your-fist-in-the-air pop" about lots that gets called bosh. In the sense of Slade being throw-your-fist-in-the-air rock, some bosh is throw-your-fist-in-the-air pop. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	koganbot 2008-05-16 06:01 pm UTC (link)
	OK, what would you say would be good examples of the various different varieties of bosh? E.g., Scooter is stadium bosh. So _____ would be _____ bosh. (Helps if you provide links.) (Reply to this)(Thread)

	skyecaptain 2008-05-16 06:13 pm UTC (link)
	Might be a cop-out, but I also wouldn't have thought of the link if the Scooter stuff hadn't been massively popular. It has a kind of "mass-approved" stamp on it, even if this isn't necessarily something unique in its sound (I wouldn't know, knowing nothing about bosh covers except from what I've heard on Poptimists). (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	skyecaptain 2008-05-16 06:19 pm UTC (link)
	(Which is to say, Jock Jams itself isn't a totally unique concept or aesthetic, as if no one else is mixing popular tunes with throbbier/fist-pumpier beats, but they get brand recognition points.) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	skyecaptain 2008-05-16 06:20 pm UTC (link)
	(Which is to then say, maybe "stadium" better evokes that!) (Reply to this)(Parent)

katstevens
2008-05-16 07:54 pm UTC (link)

But until the last 3/4 years or so Scooter *haven't* been really popular in the UK! They had one big hit with 'Ramp...' when I was at university and then buggered off back to Germany (where they are bigger than GOD). It's only since the Clubland brand has taken off properly that Scooter have been welcomed back into the UK fold, and even then, everyone in London is looking around all bewildered, going 'who? what?' (when you get as as far out as Croydon and Romford and Watford you get more representative).

The bosh cover thing goes right back to acid house, where silliness with sufficient accompanying beats was in Great Demand. If you believe some of the commentary on the era then apparently about 10% of the nation's youth were pilled up to the eyeballs for most of 1988/9 (hahaha reliability of sources = more than questionable!). Then at some point in the 90s everyone lost their sense of humour and started dancing to Serious Trance/Euphoric House. Of course I was sitting about watching sodding Trumpton at the time obv so I can't verify this in any way.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	Cum On Feel The Bosh koganbot 2008-05-16 06:25 pm UTC (link)
	Where do Scooter tend to get played? And how is it that the album gets to open at number one while the single barely slinks into the top 50? From the sound I'd expect them to be a singles act. (But I'd read that the album is being sold with a limited edition hits collection attached, so maybe that explains the album's success.) (Reply to this)(Thread)

	This may explain everything: katstevens 2008-05-16 07:59 pm UTC (link)
	Something of this sort generally gets played every other ad break on Hits!TV. It's a pretty accurate picture of 'Council House', though your ceiling height/air-conditioning may vary. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Cum On Feel The Bosh carsmilesteve 2008-05-17 10:26 am UTC (link)
	so our thinking is: they've just played their biggest uk tour as part of the very popular clubland package tour there is a greatest hits extra disc it's one of the slowest weeks for alBUM sales since records began (Reply to this)(Parent)

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